WELSH CALVANIST / CALVINIST RECORDS

[margaretgreenwood]

Hi
I am looking into the Welsh Calvanistic churches in Earlestown. My main interest is in the one that used to be at 51 Clarence St. (I was baptised there in 1954). I thought I had dreamed this up, but I found it in the 1911 census. It is mentioned as "Welsh Mission Rooms". Does anyone know what happened to the records (or the people) from there? They just seem to have vanished. Does anyone have access to the electoral rolls for 1954 and could perhaps check the address?
I would be extremely grateful.
Kind regards
Mags

[mike59]

Hi Margaret
The electoral registers for the period you were looking for were held at St Helens Libary, sadly these were destroyed in a fire, and now only the years from 1974, which are in book form, are available to view.
Whether these records are available elsewhere, I'm unsure at the moment.

* The electoral registers for Newton, Earlestown, Ashton, Haydock etc, from 1885 - 1916 are available to view on microfilm
at Newton Library. There is also the 1919 roll in book form.

Mike

[Kirsty]

Hi Mags,

This is an interesting one for me. I've just been on GENUKI to see if they have any churches recorded as being located on Clarence Street but they don't.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/NewtoninMakerfield/#ChurchHistory
GENUKI have recorded that a Calvinist Church stood on Tamworth Street, that a Welsh Baptist Church stood on Houghton Street and that a Welsh Wesleyan Methodist Church was located in the area of the Common but an exact street location isn't given.

I'd thought there was at least one church missing from the Newton-in-Makerfield page of GENUKI and now you've confirmed this for me. My dad told me that his nana (whose mother was Welsh) attended a Welsh church in Earlestown/Newton and that she referred to it as "Welsh Chapel". I told my dad what was listed on GENUKI for Newton but he didn't feel any of these were the church his nana attended. My dad's nana, Nellie Forshaw, nee Waring, lived on Athol Street (round the corner from Clarence Street) so it makes sense that she would attend such a local Welsh church/chapel.

To find out more about Welsh churches in Earlestown/Newton it might be worth contacting The National Library of Wales:
http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=2
I just visited the above web-site and searched the on-line catalogue and got 5 hits for the word Earlestown. One of the documents that came up in my search was a letter dated 1872 appealing for funding for a Independent Welsh Church in Earlestown. Sounds like there maybe potential in this direction at any rate.

It may also be worth giving St. Helens library a quick call as they have some church records relating to Newton. The problem with St. Helens library (or one of the problems) is that they don't always know what they've got, record/document wise. Each document/file/record held within the archive will be given a name. If you ask for a document by the name it is filed under there’s a chance you’ll get to see it – if you don’t, you could be hitting your head against a brick wall for some time.

Hope some of the above helps.

Best of luck, Kirsty

[terry687]

Hi
The Chapel's address is Brunswick Road not Clarence Street

[mike59]

Hi Terry
Would that be the property that's still standing, and up for sale at this moment ?

Mike.

[neileen]

what denomination was the church on heather brae originally? and the tin church in haydock street?

[Kirsty]

Hi
The Chapel's address is Brunswick Road not Clarence Street

Was the Chapel on Brunswick Road definitely a Calvinist church, then? I hadn't thought so...

I've heard/read the Brunswick Road Chapel referred to in the following ways;
"The Brunswick Road Town Mission"
"Brunswick Road Evangelical Church"

I believe the Brunswick Chapel has it's origins in "The City Mission Movement" but has never been connected to Calvinism.

Kirsty

[Kirsty]

What denomination was the church on Heather Brae originally? And the tin church in Haydock Street?

Hi Neileen,

There was a Primitive Methodist Church and a Welsh Wesleyan Church in Newton/Earlestown - neither of which I've been able to pin-point with an exact street location. It's possible one or both (or neither - lol) of these churches were in/on Heather Brae / Haydock Street.

I'm assuming both the churches you're thinking of were non-conformist but what exact denomination, I'm not sure - but I'd love to know.

Kirsty

[joyce]

This picture is of haydock st chapel if it helps any

[Podstar66]

In the 'Yesterdays of a Railway Town' books, vol 1 has a section on the various churches and chapels etc
It states that:
The Welsh Calvinistic Methodists erected a chapel in Tamworth Street in 1873. And when they vacated it, that the Salvation Army moved into it from their Citadel in King Street.

The Welsh Wesleyans opened a chapel at the junction of Market Street and Tamworth Street in 1887
(This could be what is now the Trinity Christian Life Centre, opposite the Town Hall)

possible chapel in Tamworth Street.jpg

The Welsh Baptists started off in a house in Clarence Street in 1902.

By 1950 all the welsh places of worship had closed.

Brunswick Road Mission Hall opened in 1901. A dispute with the committee lead to some members opening the Holiness Mission being set up in Haydock Street.

The Church of Christ on Heather Brae opened in 1926, but had previously held their meetings above the shops in Grant/Legh/Wellington Streets, they then took over the former Salvation Army Citadel in King Street, before moving into Heather Brae.

On an interesting note, it mentions that the Baptists held their services in a room in Market Street, before moving to the Co-Operative Hall in Earles Street, and then in 1881 to the Chapel in Crown Street.
Now there is a house in Market Street that stands out from the rest, and I have often wondered if it was a chapel in the past.

Market Street - note the fancy doorway.jpg

Pod

ps. This information is also to be found in the Coles 'History of Newton in Makerfield' at Newton Library.

[Steven]

There is a post here that did quite some time ago which I tried to give details about the different Churches

http://newton-le-willows.com/history/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1287&p=9577

That house on Market street has always been double fronted as long as I can remember, when I was at School a frind lived there, if I remember correctly his name was Graham Forsythe. I remember him teaching me 'Santana' and 'Yes' guitar riffs in livingroom that he had in the upstairs, left side at the front of the house, I bet the people next door are still recovering from the noise we made.


Steven Dowd

[neileen]

its not been a chapel of any description for the last 50 years i know of

[margaretgreenwood]

Hi everyone

Thank you all so much for your replies. There is certainly plenty here to keep me going for a while. With regards to the Brunswick Methodist church, this was a Weslyan methodist that amalgamated into the Methodist church we know today. The Welsh Methodists (which were really Welsh Presbyterian Baptists known as Calvanistic Methodists) were a breakaway movement from the Weslyan Methodists after the huge argument between Wesley and Howell Harris in 1811. It formally formed itself into a separate body in 1823 with the drawing up of its Confession of faith and produced its own monthly periodical Y Cenhadwr. It is distinguished from the Methodism of John Wesley by the Calvinistic nature of its theology. They have all but vanished (except for Sutton Oaks Welsh Chapel, the one on the outskirts of St Helens). I have been to St Helens libary (quite a while ago now when the large maps were in the back room) and on an old map I found a chapel marked at the top of Clarence street on the right hand side. It used to be a green tin mission. I have also searched the 1911 census, but there is no mention of it, just 51 Clarence Street, which was the house mentioned earlier, situated on the left of the street. What I cannot for the life of me understand is this: Why have 2 chapels in the same street? I was told I was baptised in the tin mission. I remember the tin mission myself as a child. I have spoken to other people who remember it in the 1950s/60s. Why no mention in the records? There is only the house. Did they move from the house when they built the green tin mission? My next step is to take Kirsty's advice and contact the National Library of Wales. The place must have had a caretaker.

I will keep you posted if I find anything further.
Kind regards, Margaret

[mike59]

Wasn't there a Welsh Calvanist Chapel in Tamworth St, which stood where the
car park is now ?
Mike

[margaretgreenwood]

Hi
Yes Mike there was.
Margaret